Ripping is a problem that has no real solution. Its something that needs to be accepted as fact when content needs to be loaded on another machine. Encryption wont work and preventing others from showing the avatar is off the table.
Of course, but have the cache encrypted does slow the process. It’s the current, biggest method right now for stealing. With memory scanning, it’s a bit harder and many won’t even go that far. There are ways, just no one’s actually trying to protect the property
This is a really bad sign and goes against what you just said. This is like the main thing players are concerned about.
Minecraft does not allow servers to charge for P2W mechanics, and VRChat shouldn’t either. It’s a predatory monetization scheme which makes all community-created content a dumping ground for asset flip cashgrabs, that is at the root of what kills a creator economy.
If there aren’t restrictions on this, and P2W transactions (transactions that allow players to have a gameplay advantage after giving real world money) take off and popular world creators implement them, this will turn into the Roblox economy. Which is the problem. Please don’t do this.
outright stopping asset ripping on a technical level is impossible. Those assets end up on other users computers so they can be rendered, and thus there will always be ways to rip them. All VRC can do is make it as hard as possible to do this so its as rare as possible. I hope work continues in those prevention systems.
That being said, there will undoubtedly be cases where ripped assets will be sold by some jackhat. Do you plan to discuss/create systems that will allow creators to directly challenge such uploads? And what will be the controls on such an anti-abuse system to ensure that system in of itself will not be abused?
A little off topic so it’s fine if it will be ignored or removed, but vrchat devs aware of ‘Dextro Avatar Protection System’? It uses scramble of meshes like many others but to encrypt it, create key on local machine and send it trough OSC.
I never hear to avatar reapers deal with this system tbh
Any chance to vrchat devs gonna try implement something that complicated?
Or it’s all gonna lead to fight with DMCA strikes? which is also very finicky when you are not US content creator or simply make avatars based on existing design like shows/games.
Goes against what, specifically? Sorry, trying to understand your viewpoint here.
As long as creators follow the guidelines, we want them to be able to create and earn for whatever they do. If creators choose to monetize their world in a particular way within those guidelines, that’s fine.
If users don’t like that particular monetization method, I would expect them to vote with their participation and not go to worlds they aren’t happy with
Notably, we’ve been chatting and proposing some creator feedback systems as well, as these are really important to go alongside CE. I’d expect those systems to help creators understand when their changes aren’t ideal.
There’s a lot more depth here, but we want people to try out and explore with their creations.
I’m on board here with the “anti-pay 2 win” thing, as you can create some pretty scummy systems. After a while, the “free” part of Vrc is just going to be select small number of things in a world and everything else behind a paywall. It always boils down to this system. Every game has a “in-app” support the creator system turned into this. Every. Single. One. Please reconsider allowing paywals in vrc and keep it to a “work around” that it already has, which are patreon rewards. At the time, that system is just “rewards” such as world skins and such. But “in-app” paywalls will deff get way worse about it.
Pay 2 win is allowed? In game microtransactions? yall ready for vrchat to become mainly mobile games like roblox? One of the top worlds in vrchat right now already has lootboxes, with keys you can pay for, bonuses for paying money, and already games the vrchat world system by requiring users to idle in the world for long times with bonuses for having more people in your instance.
Literally a mobile game in vrchat, I bet we will see a lot more if people realize they can use the mobile tactics to easily wring out money from people for in-game bonuses/cheats/whatever.
The problem is you say the “community will vote based on participation”.
However, this fails to keep in mind that in other instances of a creator economy with infinite mtx and p2w mtx, it has attracted new low quality developers that appeal to the younger portion of a fanbase and flood the market and ecosystem with poor quality, asset flip content designed to get as much money as possible for as little effort as possible.
It also preys on people with gambling and spending addiction issues, since those are the people that end up being the biggest revenue generator with this knowledge. On a game with a well-known issue with alcoholism and drug use, I don’t think I need to elaborate on how dangerous that is.
You have children as young as 13 on this game, and that is a prime demographic for this sort of predation. What is on VRChat right now will NOT be the content that allowing this sort of monetization will bring in. You will see a monumental shift in the content people create and put on the platform. It happened with Roblox, it was happening with Minecraft before the ToS changes were implemented, it happened to mobile games when IAP support was added to both iOS and Android.
Not curbing this behavior will hurt the game significantly. Plus, you’re making money on this by-proxy too: not curbing predatory monetization practices which are at the heart of what people hate about a lot of modern game monetization reflects on the content you will want to see in the game and what experience you value for your userbase.
(Note that I’m okay with admission tickets, VIP/world paywalls, cosmetic feature purchases/features in social worlds, etc. It’s specifically the combination of P2W and infinite mtx that I have an issue with.)
Gotcha, I believe I understand where you’re coming from now. Allowing “vote by participation” doesn’t account for dark patterns, marketing, etc driving players to play games that will then push them into transactions that are unfair for those who don’t pay, and that will result in a race to the bottom of the barrel for content.
What do you think would solve this issue? Regulation via rulesets feels very vague. Someone’s definition of “pay to win” might differ from someone else’s.
To be clear, we’ve been discussing stuff like this internally for years and have had this specific conversation several times. I’m interested in your viewpoint and pathway through the thought, though. Preemptive thank you for spending the time on typing it up btw
Edit: Ah, as an addition, I think it’s important to note that we are fans of supporting creators for doing the work they’re doing. That’s our goal. A lot of creators monetize right now in “Support me for what I do!” kinda ways, and that’s the spirit we want to preserve. Our guidelines are written to support that mindset.
Dunno, engineer is doing engineer things on it. Work is happening! Progress occuring!
And we’re glad you’re taking our talks seriously on this matter.
Just don’t allow Udon world creations to include “in-app” purchases to unlock. Simple. Everything else is just “here’s some support dollars. Buy a soda or som’in”
While Patreon already does this for “unlocks”, it’s majoritilly just cosmetical stuff.
I see. Don’t you think that prosecutes bystanders a bit much?
If someone has a FPS shooter game and wants to allow someone to unlock a single-use-per-round Golden Gun, I think that’s probably fine. Preventing world creations from having in-app purchases also technically disallows something like Test Pilot’s “preview plane” that’s currently locked behind a Ko-Fi code.
A code? That’s cute honestly (no sarcasm). But this has you take extra steps to even get to this point. Many won’t even think of it. But in-app? It’s just as simple as opening your menu and draining what ever debit card or Paypal is attached to the account. That’s how kids get roped, and how you get Whales. If it’s easy, they’ll do it.
Been waiting for this update for years now, Super excited to see it in action soon!
This will be a huge help for creators to have everything just done in house rather than use 3rd party sites.
Plus even better if it grants auto access for the users after they pay for the feature they are looking to unlock. (or at least have it so they only need to re-load the world after purchase!)
I feel like there is a difference between ‘hey you want to test this in dev feature/world section? be one of our top world loving people and help us survive’ and ‘hey you want an instakill weapon for a round? 1 dolla, come on dont you want to destroy your friends? What about a key for this lootcrate that is totally not a slot machine, or filling up your udonchips with real money and literally actually gambling with poker and slot machines at 13, its fun and legal!’
Thats a line that needs to be laid in stone.
