Announcing the Avatar Marketplace!

Official Official Notes
43

That’s actually a really good discussion to have. Should the creator of a base get a cut of sales for clothes/accessories made for that base?

On the one hand, the creator likely didn’t work on the accessory outside of making the base it’s meant for. On the other, those assets are built off the base model and likely use parts from it, like weight painting data. Either way, I don’t enjoy the idea of an already 50% cut being cut further and discouraging clothes asset availability in the Avatar Marketplace in the process.

Regardless, this is a discussion best left to those who actually do make avatars.

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44

If buying isn’t owning…
Not a feature I will be using if source files aren’t provided.

The concerns about profit splits and lack of direct payment options seem to make this a terrible idea for creators as well.

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45

How will gifting work, will creators be able to gift their avatars to users? Will creators be able give out redemption codes?

47

My problem is the potential issue with credits to cash conversion and it getting out of control one way or the other.

I also don’t like how you can’t get the files to the avatar for further customization. I would have a Booth/Gumroad site that’s moderated by the VRChat team if that’s the case.

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48

DISCLAIMER: This is a bit rambly, and I’m not very good at organizing my thoughts.

This is literally just public avatars but gatekept behind a price-tag. Also, to mirror what other people have said, not having access to source files is a yikes. This sounds like it’s just licensing, not actually truly owning the avatar, since you don’t own the files and it would be left up to creators whether or not to provide source files off-platform if you bought the avatar in the marketplace. So someone could buy an avatar on the marketplace, and then find out this creator doesn’t support offering source files for marketplace purchases, but does offer the avatar off-platform as well. Sounds like a massive hassle for the refund logistics regarding that, if one even bothers, otherwise oh hey, you’re paying twice.

Also, there are already places that catalogue all the avatars that exist that you can go buy, like VRCArena, and I’m sure others.

Really a bad way to go about this, this should’ve just been implemented as an avatar search, no paywall. And then, for avatars that people customize from the ground up as a base using source files, maybe we just have it as something you can see, not buy, not clone, but only get directed off-platform for the source files, with some kind of little warning about going off-platform. That way, we get public avatars, and people can be directed to where to get source files as well. Avatar creators already promo their stuff, too, so it would just increase creator visibility. Go to any of their bios, most likely they’ll have a link to their store page.

Making unity out to be this big scary thing isn’t maybe the best idea? There are tutorials upon tutorials upon tutorials, and talking about the ‘creator burden’ of avatar support makes it sound like creators are OBLIGATED to provide handholding step-by-step to get an avatar working. They aren’t in any way, even if you pay for their product, they could simply say ‘you’re on your own to get it working’ and many do just that, or cite a requirement of basic unity knowledge. As for people who don’t own or can’t access a PC, this doesn’t even solve the problem of them not being able to access unity. Let’s say someone doesn’t own a PC, or have access to a PC. Do they own a phone, or are they using an android headset? If it’s either of the above (which, oh hey, no PC? They’ll be one of these) then there are ways to be able to run the unity editor. For instance, running a virtual machine on an android device to be able to run the unity editor, accessing public computers, using a cloud computer, etc. Do they know someone who has a computer? That works too. But, according to VRC here, your average user dares not approach unity, nor do they want to. I think that’s not quite true. I think people want their own customized avatars, they just don’t know how to go about getting started. Maybe instead of this, make avatar creation resources more visible, and help users with understanding how to approach that process?

Another matter is, for what reason would you even pay if you can’t customize it the same way you can with having the source files, to be your own personal avatar? That’s the whole point of putting in the investment towards getting your own avatar. This completely negates that whole idea. To make avatars that would be even more customizable for sale, you’d probably have to lose out on some optimization, which, oh hey, if your target audience with this is Android, look, that’s another bad idea. This seems like it just incentivizes people to make really poor performance avatars loaded up with as many gimmicks/outfits/etc as possible, and potentially lock their now public avatars behind a paywall for greed.
Plus a lot of public avatars are already very high quality, pretty modular and customizable as it is, so what’s the point of this again? Oh right, money. That 50% profit split hurts this as well. Plus, with people who do retextures or avatar edits as commissions, I don’t see how this system provides a place for them?

I’m sure there are other issues this has, like FOMO if someone puts an avatar up for sale for a limited time, then takes it down, and only those who bought it have it. And then it’s also a matter of it’s on the creator to provide updates for that avatar. if the creator disappears, your avatar that YOU paid for will eventually stop working, because you yourself cannot update it.

Overall, just a big, like absolutely massive yikes and an as-it-stands useless idea. Please, please recycle this into an avatar search function.

5 Likes
49

wait, the team is going to review every avatar included in the marketplace. does this mean more saucy avatars will cease to exist? (because knowing the trigger happiness of the avatar banning team and stupid minors getting thier hands on something they shouldn’t.) and is this completley replacing public avitars? if i get on VRC once this update releases will all of my avitars be deleted off of my favorites? is there a implementation like a age requirement for said saucy avitars? like requirring the verified 18+ badge to wear them? and why are you guys monitising something that was once free, this is a very nintendo move and i dont like it, especally for what this means for those saucy avitars. goodbye gender dysphoria and shark avi’s, hello toaster. i dont have tits anymore because vrchat is becoming big brother.

50

and is this completley replacing public avitars? if i get on VRC once this update releases will all of my avitars be deleted off of my favorites?

no
public avatars will still exist
who did you hear any of this from, where does VRChat say any of that.

51

You should look at the FAQ post. It answers some questions, and is linked somewhere up higher here.

52

this sounds awful! is it not just paying access to use an avatar? whats the point? whats stopping avatar creators from immediately making all their avatars paid access (the ones who even can), making them unusable? i really dont like the idea of having some avatars in my favorites disappear because they decided to make them pay to use. i pray this update will be universally hated, because it is absolutely awful if it is literally just a pay to use avatar system. i absolutely dread the idea of having to pay to use an avatar that really should and would normally be public. i feel like users will abuse this. avatars shouldnt really be worth anything unless youre buying the files to them. there are some great avatars, and it will be awful to see them thrown behind a paywall

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53

i would love for the team to listen to this, but judging by their other strange development choices, i feel like this whole avatar “buying” feature isnt going anywhere or improving. theyre making money, and thats all they want

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55

As a fresh user that's trying to join the party late I don't feel like I have "the right to vote" but I'd like to share some thoughts as a "soon to be a creator" user:

  1. Creating a marketplace *this late* in which The Platform takes a 20% cut (before VAT), with an additional 30% going to Steam (why are they even included?!), leaving creators with only 50% before taxes feels disingenuous. This isn't a reasonable participation fee that fosters creation; it's a hefty tax on creators' work
  2. Nobody wants to block your revenue streams, but this marketplace simply monetizes what creators were already doing for years, both for the community and themselves. Rather than innovating with new type of content or new additional features, you're inserting yourselves as gatekeepers and taxing a thriving ecosystem. The 'fancy avatar browser' functionality should have been a basic feature years ago, not a justification for taking half of creators' earnings now.
  3. You mentioned "this is just a first step", and you did not emphasize the autonomy of the people who actually create the content beyond your platform. Looking from the outside, it raises concerns you're planning on prohobiting people from creating(and selling) avatars outside of your marketplace or at least making it more difficult as it is today.
  4. I understand that striking deals with major corporations isn't easy, and payment processing has complexities. However, with your consistent footfall of approximately 50,000 daily users through Steam alone for the last two years (just checked), volume shouldn't be an issue if you genuinely wanted better terms for creators.
  5. The legal terms reveal creators are clearly not the center of this marketplace: 30,000 minimum credits (~$150) to get any payout, long wait times for payouts, mandatory two-week intervals between payouts, required VRChat Plus subscription(pay us before we pay you?), and complete discretion by VRChat to deny payments or change exchange rates at any time at their discretion. On top of that everything is wrapped in a non-currency token the platform controls and suddenly this looks less like supporting creators and more like *extracting maximum value* from them while *offering minimal services* in return.
  6. If the marketplace was a *new sub-platform that would create a NEW type of content* it would be different situation but as it stands everyone in the comments shares the fears of monopolisation or simply a parasitic rather than symbiotic relationship with estabilished creators and revenue stream going to VRChat. This is a very risky move because if there's a community likely to abandon a platform over creator rights issues, it's this one and I say that with barely explored world or two! Please think this through!
  7. You're assuming that marketplace avatars are going to ease out choosing the avatar and will work great as-is but all of the community's voices(and surrounding comments) suggests clearly that even the best avatars will need some form of personalisation in order to make them truly *yours* - which a closed system does not allow for nor it's stated as a plan and we all know you're not about to release a full-feature in-game avatar editor as this is very time consuming and expensive (before we even get to related bugs).
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56

Ladies, Gents And Others alike, The beginning of corporate greed and the age of EA of vrchat. For the next update, charging players $10 per friend request unless you have vrc+!

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57

WOW.
I just saw the CEO’s June 2024 email (where they fired 30% of staff) claimed they had ‘incredible growth in 2021-2022’ that justified a hiring spree.
The data is out there for anyone to check including Steam charts and… where exactly is that growth? The numbers show steady player base growth, not some amazing spike. Now they are laying off people and platform is ALREADY shrinking - down 10.9% in February, another 3.4% in March, and continuing to drop.
They’re losing players month after month, and their solution is a marketplace that takes HALF the revenue from creators? While feeding us a story about growth that never happened? That’s the answer?

This marketplace idea is just a way to extract cash from a shrinking player base to fix management’s mistakes. No wonder I had my reservetions.
But don’t trust me, see this “incredible growth spike” for yourself:
https://steamdb.info/app/438100/charts/#6y
I wonder if the hiring spree was also so “incredible”

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58

Why avatar but not PROPS.
We have prints that is universal and is indeed a great feature. It’s one of the reason people pay for VRC+.
Add universal prop feature. Treat them similar to avatars or something.
Just allow creators to make props, and throw those in market with limitations and functions to control them just like any other VRC+ features. I don’t mind having to pay for VRC+ then being able to buy props, it feels alright and even the ‘correct’ way to do.
Just think about this, those gun maps can collab together to make a gun pool, where all the guns can be carried around into different maps and being used. Or some fancy particle or shader effects that can be used in dance rooms or anywhere. Or fireworks, furnitures, hell even sleeping aruas. The potential of props market is insane and isn’t something really there at all, unlike avatar where things are already mature.
If this is the case, for personal effects like props, VRC and/or creator can label them as effects and default all those to off, and add some visual cue for others to manualy turn them on or something. Sort them by complexity and load for optimization, allow maps to control or interact with some of the props via parameters just like maps do with some avatars.

I would pay for them for sure. Is there no one care about props? I personally is so tired of having to struggle with avatar parameters, nor having to manually make everything compatiable with avatars. It’s such a painful thing to do, and requires time and effort with unity.
This can solve so many problems.

I do wish for this feature badly. We can start with janky tools, and make it better as we go. Just like avatars, we’ve made it to SDK3 didn’t we.

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59

I just wanna add your current idea of a good system for an avatar store without trying to sell outfits and their files is completely excluding revenu of Booth.pm whales like me.

60

my gripe is that they did not say any of it, they vaugley mentioned that the “old way of doing things” still exists but dont specificaly mention “public avitars will still exist”.

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61

I think jumping to the conclusion of they’re killing public avatars is hugely different from what they’re obviously talking about. They’re talking about buying an avatar from somewhere like Gumroad or BOOTH and having to setup Unity and everything else just to be able to upload it.

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62

perhaps allow creators to upload unity files which would be downloadable from the vrchat website in a purhased marketplace avatars tab or allow creators to distribute keys to avatars so they can give customers access to the marketplace avatar with their gumroad/payhip purchase.

63

VRChat wanted a bigger cut of the cake i see xD

I get it, marketplace, neat idea but hope you consider the feedback above, probably also follow eu’s regulation and read before this gets deployed before we see the kids/teens doing worse things on this platform than their doing now..

64

I want to shout out that we’re primarily answering questions in the FAQ thread. While it’s meant more for creators, a lot of the questions being asked in this thread are answered there. I’d prefer not to double up on things, so I’d strongly suggest checking out that thread if you have specific questions.

With that said, let me try to grab questions that have not been answered there…

As a creator, you are free to link to your other stores or social media in your bio, or basically anywhere else.

As a frequent user of Booth, I’m not particularly sure I’ve ever seen someone link to another one of their stores in their description page?

This isn’t really a question, but I wanted to point out that your numbers aren’t correct!

It’s understandable that most users on these forums (or elsewhere on social media) are going to be more “hardcore” VRChat users who are familiar with Unity, Blender, etc., and who customize their own avatars.

This is not the case for all – or even most – users, however!

Candidly, if you make/customize your own avatars and have an affinity for Unity already, then this system isn’t for you out of the gate. Eventually, we’d like it to be for you, but that wasn’t our goal out of the gate.

Not quite in the same way, but there will be something similar for world creators who happen to have avatars for sale.

We are considering offering support for selling components like clothing, accessories, swappable parts and textures in future iterations of the marketplace, but it will not be part of this first version.

We wanted to start with a simple approach to get Avatar Marketplace in your hands as soon as possible. Remember that many of the new buyers you’ll have access to on VRC are unfamiliar with external marketplaces that offer high customization, so don’t assume that a simple pre-built avatar won’t find an audience on VRC.

Avatars can also be customized if configured to do so via available functionality, including listing variants of the same avatar as separate products, or using toggles, as long as avatars adhere to performance requirements.

Which brings me to…

Us too!

Right now, the large majority of avatars we’re accepting to be part of the marketplace are Poor or better. We are allowing in a few Very Poor avatars, but these are special exceptions that are riding the limit and are only accepted on a case-by-case basis.

Gifting isn’t part of launch, but it’s a good idea!

Public avatars will still exist!