OSC Developers - How to avoid abuse?

Interesting, but I think this will be avoidable by using unicode hijinks; there are a lot of characters that look similar, but aren’t, as well as various ways to encode the same glyphs. It also discourages correcting typos, and short form responses.

As someone who doesn’t hang out with the kind of folks who abuse chatboxes, it’s hard to tell if this would be adopted. Do those folks tend to upload their own avatars? Would we expect public avatars to start having general-purpose text displays attached to them?

If VRChat implements a prop or accessory system, then this could be effective, but if it requires an avatar upload, it might not divert as much of this abuse as you intend.

This also feels like a lot more effort to implement properly than a player or instance/group-moderator chatbox mute option; a new avatar component is a long-lived API that people will want a lot of customization and control over, and if it’s not done right you’ll be left with an albatross of an API hanging off the Avatar SDK that you can’t get rid of due to the small handful of people actually using it…

This also feels like it might be effective - just make very large chat displays annoying for the person using them. Maybe even make the chat display become bigger for a short time every time it’s updated over OSC. This does require a bit of balancing to avoid being too annoying for legitimate use cases, of course, but a big part of these sorts of problems is it’s too easy to be oblivious to how it impacts others…

Hello! I just found this thread and thought I’d add my 2 cents as someone who uses the chatbox for its intended purpose.

I’m often on the VRC canny reporting and pitching ways to make the system less frustrating for myself and hopefully everyone else with my shared experience, so I’d like to provide some perspective as someone on the receiving-end of the status clutter.

Speaking from my own experience, I strongly believe that allowing users to use the chatbox for statuses in any regard is super damaging to the chatbox’s function as an accessibility tool.
Currently, if someone finds the constant status messages annoying, they just disable chatboxes entirely and move on.
(Ignoring the “Friends only by default” stuff,) This prevents me from being able to communicate with a very large number of people. I have a very hard time participating in conversations with new people because I often have to ask friends nearby to tell them to enable my chatbox, or use pens to communicate, which isn’t always an option.

Now, taking into account the possibility of an individual-user chatbox mute option, this might seem like a solved problem.

I still don’t think this is the case.

Allowing passive, optional information to occupy the same space as high-priority, active social communication is still a problem because people’s brains get trained to just stop looking at the high-priority stuff when there are so many passive statuses you have to turn off.
This is already a huge part of the problem I’ve noticed after hours of examining and evaluating ways people interact with me as a chatbox user. People will straight up ignore what I’m saying even if they do have chatboxes enabled, because they think I have a spotify status on my head.

This is something I’m super passionate about and could talk about for way longer, but I’ll stay relatively on-topic and touch on the proposed solutions to solve this.

I’m not a huge fan of this idea because I’m just imagining all the scenarios where I’d just be trying to say “yes” and “yes!!” right after eachother and not being able to. This would become a huge problem for people who actually use the chatbox for…chatting.

This is what I want the most. I would love if there were a system similar to Discord’s rich presence that let you put statuses on your profile/nameplate rather than trying to “make the chatbox work” for statuses, based on the reasons I mentioned earlier.
The idea to let avatars take advantage of these statuses would also be super cool!

I had originally thought this would be the best solution, and I was initially very supportive of a canny post pitching a similar concept, but I just feel like if you’re going to allow OSC developers to split statuses off into their own “data-but-not-actually-a-message”-type input, why not just send it to a dedicated status system in the first place?
Having “data” chatbox messages would honestly just incentivize people to use the chatbox for statuses even more because they’d now have a relatively valid excuse to do so.

So while this is a great idea at its core, I’d much rather if it were spun into the “Improve the User Status field” idea as a separate OSC function rather than a branch of chatbox input.

I don’t want people to get used to the chatbox being a status tool that happens to secondarily serve as a communication tool. I really want to be able to express myself and know that people will likely be able to acknowledge my attempts to participate in conversation.

Anyway, please feel free to reply, ask questions, or reach out to me directly for anything regarding this sort of stuff, I’m extremely passionate about accessibility in VRChat.

I wrote all this on a whim and I’m not used to writing forum posts haha, so I really hope this can serve as valuable feedback.

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I like the idea of improving the social status. Just add a few tick boxes for displaying songs, and time.

Though the one suggestion you made were it checks the similarities of the messages might not work with a certain music chatbox osc people have been using where it shows the time of the song. Or a bar showing how far they’re into the song.

It is a bit annoying when people use magic chatbox, even when they pause the music. Its just a big grey box for a pause icon.

Feedback to “Message”/“Data” Chatbox

I think it’s not the best idea to make the system more complex with “Message” and “Data” Chatbox or simillar ideas which are introducing us to different message types. I think this makes it unnessesary more complex. espacially for new users, to understand what is happening in world. What if i have 1 message and 1 data? Will it show both or only one? Extra symbols on chatboxes would be needed which might be not selfexplaining to everyone because it’s unusually for us to divide between message types in a speech bubble. Symbols and UI would need to be created.

If we ending up with a combinatiion of this and a seperate mute button for a chat box. then this would need mute button per user too. which would make moderation section bigger and more complex. To many (low power) moderation buttons could bring people to loose overview if they need it in a situation.

Some of this arguments might be valued different from persona to persona. Just wanted to share where i could see issues coming up.

Status update over OSC

Disclaimer: I can be very wrong here with my understanding/guessing of VRChat internals. My knowledge could be off or completly wrong.

I think there is an issue of data flow and which endpoint is reposonsable for which data. Our status is part of the HTTP API. OSC messages getting send over Photon. Which make this data limited to your current instance. Photon does only have an event which pulls your latest status update into your instance. Which is why you can have a different status when you are with somebody in the same world comparet to you are not in the same world or website or vrcx when you are changing your status outside of the game while playing it.

I hope this makes it also more clear why i went imidiatly went with http api here: