There is no perfect solution, but forcing stuff like ID is worse. Using merely charging 5c to a third party to confirm they are able to pay making it “more likely” they are adult isn’t surefire either. No matter what route they pick, a lot of people lose. But supporting the ID method damages something deeper in society.
As much as i may feel bad about the minority adults without pc’s, quest has been debilitating vrchat since it was added. A lot of core functions used to be so much better, like IK. I would never mourn it’s loss.
I’d like to add that VRChat was an adult game from it’s inception, and has been distorted into being a “childrens’ game” since the attempt to appease mobile VR market. Core VRChat cannot be a children’s game, unless there is a sanitized alternative like a quest exclusive isolated platform that is properly curated.
Children shouldn’t really be in VR in the firstplace.
The way I see it: It’s more that they’re adding a layer of protection than removing anything.
People without ID verification can still use VRChat. It just would likely mean they can’t enter spaces that would require ID verification. So friends can make that decision beforehand I would think.
Okay, so lets say they make the game only 18+ and don’t use ID verification. How do you verify that someone is 18+?
I am SUPER excited for mipmap streaming. VRAM is the only thing holding me back. I have a 5700X3D, 128 GB of RAM, and a 3080.
Uh, if it goes as it’s been already, anything with the sexual tag will be filtered by this too. Meaning people who believe in privacy and refuse to confirm their ID will be denied access to suggestive content/spaces, and people will start disobeying the tag system because it’s stupid if they are gated in this way.
Many people already can’t use the VRC official discord because they refuse to give discord (a notoriously insecure platform) their phone number.
Adult sites don’t require your ID to look at pron, so why should i need that to hang out with my friends in skimpy outfits?
You’re not wrong. But then that’s the risk they can take. I’m sure if they do their stuff in private, no one will care or notice. I frankly don’t think it’s my problem if someone else is going to subvert a system like that.
A minor going onto a porn website and lying about their age is completely different from a minor engaging in adult activities with other actual adults.
I’m just saying it’s not gonna solve the problem, it’ll just create a new one. (on top of the harm to society by promoting invasion of privacy)
Children can get caught doing this literally anywhere irl. That is the folly of guardians and anyone who was trying to do things with them. It’s not the fault of the restaurant because someone groomed a kid in the bathroom.
Yes, but think about the scope of the actual problem. The worst that will happen is that people will subvert the system and then VRChat will be literally like it already is. It already is this way. Sexual and Adult tags don’t block minors and you’re relying on someone telling you that they’re an adult.
But what is the solution to this? It doesn’t have to be “remove the ID system”. Here’s what I think:
Instance Creators should be able to mark instances as “age verified 18+ or 21+” or mark content as “age verified only”.
Adult and Sexual tags only auto-block content for people registered as under 18, but will show for users registered as over 18 even if they’re unverified.
Does that sound like a good compromise? (Assuming VRChat actually implements it).
The problem with your comparison is that the context is completely different. IRL interactions are completely different from virtual. Nevermind that, in real life, bars and clubs will check your ID.
Yes, if someone does not keep watch over their child, it is generally their fault. But how do we enforce that for parents and online experiences if not by law (which probably won’t happen)?
Me and a lot of other members of the community would not have started using this platform if it required to provide your government ID to a third party service to get started. It’s just too much of a blow to privacy and a security risk regardless of the chosen provider.
This procedure is justified when you rent a house or buy a car. For an entertainment product it is completely out of place.
So again, I’d very kindly like to ask you to reconsider this choice.
~ Sam
They aren’t saying that you have to have an ID to use VRChat. You can totally just not upload your ID. No one is forcing you to.
That is a risk that a user can research and choose to take for themselves.
Edit: I think that if a medical company can leak my PII (SSN, DoB, legal name, etc.) months after I check out of a hospital, no one is safe anyways. So I don’t care if someone uses my ID.
What we should care about is authentication security. The real fear is someone using that information to impersonate me, no?
This is not a good idea whatsoever, and seems predicated on the idea that only kids use Quest-- When thousands of adults use Quest exclusively. Alsomhow would you even do that? Check each “Bar” or “Club” individually? Not like they’re all clearly listed, or can akl even be Defined Clearly as such. I’d be down for a 18+ version of VRC, but at most THAT’s where the distinction should lie, an entire version-- Not cutting off content for Quest entirely-- That’s just biased and unproductive. Also I’m sorry, but we’re not all so paranoid about our privacy-- An ID works fine for many of us, and is easy and reliable lol.
The problem is many users aren’t going to want to have to filter based on ID because of friends that refused to do it, and then get banned or something because they weren’t filtering when they were supposed to for more lewd stuff. It’s just going to cause a great many people a great many issues.
This just generates a massive grey area that could encompass a significant portion of the population, and make people targets for unfair bans.
A) no they’re not that different, they are different but not nearly as different as in person to text. vr is more similar to in person than it is to text chat.
B) vrchat bars and clubs are not real bars and clubs. they do not have license to serve alcohol, they have not passed the regulations and requirements to do to. it’s all roleplay. vrchat bars are no different than a house party, which kids are allowed to be at around drunk people (regardless of anyone’s moral views, it’s not illegal).
I cannot emphasize enough, it’s not your job. All the platforms creating this myth of the safe space gives a false sense of security which puts children in more danger. The social expectation needs to be that there is no safe space for children on the internet, at all, period.
…Then people will educate their kids a bit better and keep them out of risky spaces.
Children are statistically more likely to get groomed in their comfy colourful playgrounds online than in vrchat bars.
With that said, that really pulls it back to, even giving quest it’s own space is probably not any better, and the only safe bet would be to kill it entirely at cost of finance, or at least stop trying to appeal to younger audience with sanitized marketing.
Isn’t the main purpose of age verification services to protect children by keeping them off the platform? How would it serve that purpose if it was optional? You are correct, they are not saying that it will be mandatory but they are not saying the opposite either. Please clarify that @strasz
Edit: Just learned that VRChat is for ages 13+, so I guess that makes a mandatory age verification very unlikely
Think about the way the system works now. Technically, NSFW content is still against ToS. If you report someone for having it, they will get temporarily or permanently banned.
The factor there is whether or not people care. If there is not sufficient evidence, they won’t get banned. If no one reports them, they won’t get banned.
There is nothing stopping people from continuing that. They just still risk doing something illegal with a minor. Nothing changes.
But they still check for ID. There are even systems that photograph your ID and credit card. The point is about the ID verification, not about the nuances of a club.
Again, objectively, a vrchat club or bar is a place where a bunch of people gather and do a thing. People drinking and trash talking is a typical north american house party, it is not a club or bar. Even if you decorate your house to look like a club or bar, it is not one.
It is clear to me that you are not willing to engage in a good faith argument and are just trying to find a reason to be angry. I am not engaging in this discussion any further.
Also: The topic in my screenshot was about a strip club. I don’t see much of a difference between an IRL strip club and a VRChat strip club in terms of content.
You guys still need to work on update prioritization, communication, and setting expectations-- This Dev Update is a bit underwhelming, and as many others have answered-- Has little to do with most features or changes you’ve actively mentioned or teased in prior updates. I know you need time, but Idk how you feel as though ignoring these features and aspects over multiple dev logs is a good look to keep peoples excitement or trust in the brand.
