I imagine it’s be be useful mostly for events, since people can leave pedestal at the entrance of worlds or in designated areas, and anyone who joins the event/gathering can pick those up on the way in.
I could see it being handy honestly, I just hope they manage it well.
“What does a DM look like”
Starz, let’s be real-- VRChat already has a DM system: It’s called “Adding messages to invites” and people do it all the time, people will literally send invites JUST to send a message-- I’ve done it, I imagine you and others on the team have done in, I have friends who do it, many users do-- It’s just NOT the most efficient or well utilized system for it, because it’s not FOR that.
Literally all you need for a DM system, at least in it’s lightest form, is to just send those “Invites” without them actually being invites, they’re just messages with a cap limit that get stored in the notification section just like everything else that piles up there, like Group invites, friend requests, etc, etc.
“What about the additional moderation cost?”
You guys literally just dropped a feature that allows you to easily spray paint ANYTHING you want on a wall as long as it passes VRChats scanning process, one that (No offense) is already flawed for custom emojis safety, it definitely will have flaws for this systems-- You even made it more easily sharable, with an entirely new feature! Moderation costs, if they aren’t a concern there-- Should not be a concern here, or it needs to be a bigger concern for both and we can work out both issues.
“Where does it go?”
Into your notifications, the same place everything else goes, as was said earlier-- I literally have a new VRC+ tab in my QM-- We can add a DM tab to notifications lol.
“What does it look like?”
A message.
But really, if y’all want it to have flair, that would be a great system to add VRC+, features to, like sending emojis-- or maybe even implement parts of Boops back into them; that’s a team decision.
“Most of all: philosophically, is this something we want in VRChat?”
I always find this argument unsatisfying because: Why does it immediately need to impede face-to-face communication? It’s not like we’re asking for a smart phone, that literally distracts you while you’re hanging out with people-- It’s just a messaging system, again, akin to what people Already Use– If you’re afraid of that, messages likely shouldn’t be on invites in the first place, because that’s usually how they’re used.
It also overlooks all the people who are scared of people on Orange or Blue, either because they don’t want to request off of Orange status people, or because they don’t want to interrupt people on blue at a bad time (my usual case)-- We can finally just message first and ask if they’re free! Easy! It gives us a quick and easy way to establish an in person hangout, without the awkward process of sending a false invite to see if they’re free, or showing up unexpectedly when someone forgot their status was open.
Now, don’t get me wrong and think I’m saying “This would be easy, and have no negative side effects or complex issues and implementations!”. I’m not a VRC developer, and can’t and won’t say that-- I just think acting like the idea is so confusing or isolating of a prospect is a bit goofy to me personally-- It’s already being done in it’s lightest form possible, I don’t think it’s as impossible or disruptive a task as some make it out to be, and I think general moderation tools for players DMs will suffice in it being used correctly.
Again, text moderation is tough, but it’s not “Stop people from immediately abusing the ability to spray paint on any wall in any allowing world” difficult, I believe we could tackle it!
That’s a good point, thanks for bringing that up.
I suppose then in that case the ability to place “indefinite” share pedestals should only be left to those with instance moderation permissions like the world/instance owner or group roles that have an “indefinite share pedestal” permission for group instances?
I can just see it being very messy otherwise if every single VRChat user with VRC+ is able to place a semi-permanent share pedestal somewhere that they themselves might even forget exists. Placing something in a world that a creator doesn’t have control over with that level of permanence should be a very explicit action done by those with permission to do so.
Also going to post this here from my comment on the video, as I feel it’s still relevant and should be seen by devs:
See, I ABSOLUTELY love this, honestly both sound great-- my only worry with this is it kind of shows again some of the worries I’ve had about focus.
Tons of features we’ve heard about and have been shared as in-progress by VRChat publically, some for Literal Years:
Still in-development
New features we’ve never even heard of, has been mentioned, and by proxy that people have ever asked for: Releasing soon
It just becomes an apparent thing after awhile, and it does have extra sting when it’s VRC+, exclusive (even as a subscriber)-- Those are ENTIRE FEATURES locked completely behind vrc±- Not even just an expanded version like more favorites or avatars.
Could you imagine if those things were completely locked behind VRC+? Or for a more “Extra/fun” example, Emojis? There’d be Virtual Riots lol.
Idk, awesome work guys-- Like I do think those are extremely cool new features-- I just as always think focusing needs to be prioritized, and maybe the strategy on how you segment features for general users vs. paid users.
This may get me a bit of scrutiny team wise, but I feel it’s important to point out:
Even Merlin, an Ex-Team Member and longtime developer for VRChat, points out how Focus and unmet goals and expectations are an issue even internally-- Things like this need to be sorted out, and I feel like “Focus on Key Aspects of the game, rather than fun side features/continued promises that oft remain unmet or pushed further down the line” shouldn’t be a huge ask of developers-- We’re trusting the health of the platform to you, and at this point it isn’t on the community:
World creators are frequently leaving, largely because of this lack of focus and far off promises
Avatar creators are scrambling for consistency and ways to utilize all the economy features proposed
Users are begging for age content gating and better verification
At a certain point it’s almost Solely on the team to address these things, which is a daunting task asked of a seemingly wide net-- But we’re all going to need that to prevail.
Another relevant post (the one Merlin Shared) I urge people to read, to really drive home the level of issue this “Focus and Meeting Promises” is:
A quote:
“You’ve acknowledged that world persistence is both “useful” and “desired”, but, no offense, it’s still missing from VRChat after 2 years from its original teaser back in mid-2021. It feels like we’ve been waiting for the Christmas that never comes.”
dTupper: "Absolutely. Trust me, more than anyone else, I know how long it takes VRChat to implement things. Down to the count of days, in some cases… Anyhow. Part of my job is to represent the community’s voice at VRChat’s table, and I think several producers and engineers want to throttle me after I ask “so what’s up with persistence? avatar scaling? world rules? 
” for the 27th time this week.
With that in mind, rest assured that we know how much people want persistence, and we’ve been working on it for quite a bit. It’s going to be ready quite soon.
I’ll admit that the “i want it now!!!” feeling is something I share with you. However, I think that after ~2+ years, a few extra months isn’t going to be pivotal to world development."
“…A few Extra Months…”
2021, to 2023, now mid-late 2024.
That is a serious issue, and NOT the only pertinent one.
(Sorry for the multiple addendums, but I do want to add: I do NOT blame Tupper for these issues, nor want any hate direct towards them whatsoever-- As much as Tupper was sick of asking 27 times about these features, I’m sure the now 72nd time bringing it up to them is no better-- The reality is: Tupper should not have to Bring Up these aspects 27 times in the first place, that is an issue outside of their control, and I’d rather it not be seen otherwise-- Same for any of the “Social Faces” of VRC, they don’t control these things, they only communicate what’s possible in the best way they can, in the direction of both the community and VRC team.
Believe it or not this feature will and is technically available but it would be a pedestal script that will have a reaction script. Hope this helps
Very strongly agree, boops with invite-length messages would be ideal (but no cooldown timer on changing message content, unlike invites)
VRchat plus would be nice to have a dedicated instance of VRchat plus, some people are suffering from the ongoing problem of minors and troublemakers, as well as cheaters.
Many of the problems that VRchat is currently trying to solve are still not being solved effectively, and this approach might be more useful.
While credit cards and the like are relatively difficult to bypass, there are also illegal ways to do so…
However, VRchat plus doesn’t have a lot of users at the moment, and some people may not be willing to pay for it in the long run.
How about a Prime account similar to CSGO?
One purchase and you are a Prime account for life, with the ability to access and create your own Prime user instances with a single purchase of VRchat plus.
It is possible to get a Prime account by gifting VRchat plus, but the giver is responsible and the ability to gift will be banned if there are issues with the person being gifted and a review will be required to lift the gifting ban.
If there is no way to do that, then I hope we can use Trust System to limit the threshold.
For example, if there is no restriction, then Visitor is included, if there is a restriction, then at least new user is required.
The highest threshold is Trusted User, the purpose of this is to set restrictions on public/friends+/Group, etc., to avoid too easy access.
If this can be combined with the prime design I mentioned above, it’s equivalent to a double defense mechanism. Although there may be innocent people being excluded, a very high threshold can solve a lot of problems.
If conditions permit, it might even be possible to give avatars/world a minimum limit, requiring a sufficient level of trust to use it.
I used to be in-favor of a DM system, but I’ve realized over time that this would not be productive. Part of VRChat is being in the moment with your friends or other people. DMs would probably defeat that purpose. I just don’t think there is a clear problem that DMs solve.
Now, on the topic of Orange status, that is just a symptom of how “friends” work.
Facebook, ironically, is a perfect example of how friends should work. You can set your posts or various communications depending on the reach/level of circles you want to see it.
I think if we had a way to set our status differently for “favorite” friends, this would go a long way in solving that problem. I’m on orange most of the time because there’s a lot of people I don’t want mixing, because I know they won’t mix well.
I’d suggest one additional feature to fit with the UI colors and launchpad themes : change the color of the small radial menu too, may be aligned with the chosen UI colors.
AND maybe another good fun thing : the loading screens may be customizable for VRC+ users, like, back to the old Vortex travel style screen including the bg music, or maybe some new ones. That would such change the VRCHAT feeling that VRC+ would really be a thing.
Ever since the implementation of steam input 2.0 (even in the beta) for index controllers the position of the avatar hand in relation the controller has felt extremely unnatural. In addition as is there is a discrepancy in rotation between the left and right hand. Surely the hand position can be changed to as it was before the implementation of input 2.0?
So, I get it, but really? Did we need another button?
This is almost as bad as the Discord Nitro gift button.
Could it not have been something towards the top of the QM that doesn’t actively interfere with UX?
What problems do DMs solve in real life?
And note any answer they solve, also usually especially assist the exact demographics that are common in VRC-- Those with social aniexty.
(typing in VR, so keeping it short lol.)
I’m confused by the question.
I’m just saying that DMs in VRChat would impede the purpose of the game. They wouldn’t really solve any problems, and likely would pose more problems instead.
I should elaborate a little about what kind of angle i mean by when i refer to customer confidence in the company.
Big concerns for people are things like platform stability, social safety, and feature advancement (addition or refinement of existing). UX can easily encompass most of this.
Then of course there’s avoiding any of the current pitfalls that are eating other companies, like overinvestment in DEI shenanigans, or adding terms that imply lack of privacy or content security (“we’re gonna spy on you”, “we’re gonna use all your stuff for ai training without an opt-in” -cough- adobe)…
…i also honestly don’t think that stuff like disruptive avatar theft detection stuff for example is going to make a significant impact on the business bottom line, as the people that have personal with this are the vast minority, and it likely doesn’t affect much who is subbing for VRC+. as we learned with Hogwarts for example, even if people are complaining about everything, they still buy the game for it’s satisfying experience.
Overall the thing that would probably go the farthest is the impression of competence by the company, and prioritizing the end user experience for the vast majority first, and providing some more incentives on top of that for VRC+ and merch etc, especially if the priority is to try and make vrchat better off financially. Appeasing the minority impressions should be secondary.
I also think that making orange status less anti-social in nature by providing more activity information would also increase user retention and engagement, it’s very common for people to get off after seeing a wall of orange and giving up, because it adds a barrier to interaction.
…There’s way too many social barriers, and needs to be less of them not more. Above mentioned chat function would reduce the severity of one of these barriers as well. This would reduce the negative social factor of orange status too.
VRChat adding more environment unity, like where things feel more interconnected, having hubs and lobbies, making transitioning between spaces more seamless (being stuck in loading screens, especially in vr, is agonizing, having portals native to worlds adjustable for instance, because most people are repulsed by them, scared of going through and landing in a random public or private instance.
I want to see VRChat do well, and these are a lot of my overall suggestions, when studying a lot of different companies.
A funny note is that VRChat cannot profit off of the well moneyed very easily. Where is the pipeline where some whales can squeeze in and overpay? There’s a good number of people with too much money in vrchat, and the only way they can spend any more money on the platform is to just throw $10 subs at random people - or better yet just make them duplicate the current instance type (if it’s a group or private or whatever).
This topic was automatically closed after 14 days. New replies are no longer allowed.
