FX layer expressions BREAK extra bone animations in locomotion layer

My avatar has a standard humanoid rig, but with 2 dozen extra bones attached to the feet which function as tentacles. They are infact added in to the mask so they can be animated, which I have done so for locomotion animations. However whenever I have any expressions on the FX layer active, the extra bones freeze in the default spawn position.

this is me with no expression, with my tentacles flailing when I walk as expected

but this is me with my face smiling, and my tentacles flat to the ground as I walk

does anyone know of a fix for this?

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There’s too many way this can happen, can you show screenshot of the layer and animations align to the template?

i just copied and pasted the example controllers from the VRCSDK and placed in the animations that I baked in from blender

Use the gesture controller for transform animation and mask everything.

I finally found where these screenshots refer to.
created the masks, made new empty base layers, and placed in the masks. The SDK insisted on the base layer having a mask though. also duplicated my action controller and placed the copy in gesture playable layer

once everything loaded in game all animations just stopped working entirely. My FX layer worked, but everything for action layer did absolutely nothing at all.

im uploading my project minus the FBX so maybe you can tell me what the heck im doing wrong

Not sure if you fixed it or not. I made an avatar with extra bones in the locomotion anims. This was over a month ago, so I don’t remember how I fixed it. I compared your package to my file

What I did was I copied the locomotion into the FX controller and put it as the top layer. I kept the action controller separate. In my file I don’t use gesture or additive, so I kept those empty(not sure if that’s important or not). I have a mask on all layer, but locomotion like the MaskLayer_FX one on the above reply

I use shape keys and extra bones in my locomotion, so I don’t know if this was to fix the shape keys or both

I also have an empty layer above action in the action controller(might fix it, idk)

I can send a unity package for you to check out if this doesn’t work

yes please.

My project was cluttered, so I just left what I believe has to do with your problem: 72.6 KB file on MEGA

Remember that you may need to leave Additive and Gesture empty: Ca12334pture

Also, I use reset layers for my project: VRChat Avatars 3.0 - Stop Using Write Defaults - One Fix for Stuck Facial Anims - YouTube

what is the null game object referenced in your animation file? is that a thing i need?

In the tutorial I linked above, at 7:30 they explain that you need it, as you can’t leave anything empty. I’m not 100% sure what it does. It might still be useful even if you don’t use the reset layer method

turns out it is necessary as my face was getting stuck without it.
My locomotion now works while i use expressions for the first time ever now.

However now my actions layer no longer works correctly. The humanoid bones move, but not the NON-human bones or the blendshapes

You would have to merge the action controller with the new locomotion/FX controller. Put the action layer at the bottom and it should fix it

AWESOME. everything works without disruption. All I have to do is compensate for bone animations that are unaccounted for in animations from the action layer which are moved around from the locomotion layer and everything will be set.

but now i am curious about how to toggle multiple locomotion sets. the one in the download is quite mystifying

If you are talking about the “Forward Go” and what not in my locomotion, those aren’t actually locomotion animations. They should be in the Gesture controller, but I couldn’t get that working.
They’re just animations that I didn’t want to affect my tracking. It turns off my locomotion, but I don’t animate the legs in my locomotion, so it doesn’t make my movements look weird

Here’s a video so it makes sense: 2021 11 03 17 17 26 - YouTube

Could you send a unity package with the new combined controller?

NEVERMIND, i figured it out. All i had to do was drag locomotion layer under the hand layers and above action layer. Thank you for all your help! I super appreciate it. Now i just have to figure out how to get multiple locomotion sets and I am done with this hell spawn

I might be able to help, but I’m having trouble understanding what you mean by multiple locomotion sets

a set in this context meaning (walk/crawl/prone)

according to someone else in the forum you can have more than one set to choose from and being able to toggle between any set of walk/crawl/prone.

I need this because my avatar is designed to be able to shape-shift into a plethora of things and I require walking movements for different numbers of arms and legs for forms like these

This is possible. I don’t think you would be able to move your view for each height or have tracking.

How I did the extra armature with the cat follower was to join the two armatures and parent the cat’s hip bone to the characters hip bone. You would have to join all the armatures together in a 3d software(blender, 3dsmax, etc). The extra armatures are like extra bones. I remember coming across an issue. If you are joining meshes, you have to join the meshes or armatures first(not sure which).

Method 1:

Combine the animations for each armature. For my case I used the NLA track on Blender. With this method you would have all the armature locomotions playing at once. If you are hiding the extra meshes using blend shapes(by making each mesh tiny), this might not be optimal. From experience, even if the mesh is scaled to 0 with a blend shape, it still has pieces that pop up as the armature moves(like thin lines popping out the model)

Method 2(not tested, but I would consider it the best method):

  1. Make separate locomotions for each character.

  2. Go into the locomotion layer and copy/paste the standing node(or all if you have standing, crouch, prone for each character).

  3. Rename each for clarity.

  4. connect each to the original(standing to standing, etc)

  5. For each condition you would use the same one used for changing the avatar(Av = 1 for cat in my example)

Here’s the full thing:

Simplified version for better understanding:

I hope this makes sense, if not feel free to ask questions

This setup you described makes sense and all, But I don’t believe it will work with what i am attempting to accomplish.
My avatar only uses one mesh and one armature. 4999 triangles and 75 bones. I designed it to meet the maximum for game optimization so quest users will be able to see it. To achieve this all my transformations were made by incorporating every last polygon and bone into every blendshape.

I was able re-purpose my current locomotion for the avatars normal form so they will function for my forms that use the same amount of legs such as octopus’ insects and arachnids. all i had to do was delete rotation data from the anim files and the locomotion takes effect for transformations like this little ladybug

What I really wanna know is if its remotely possible to use multiple blendtrees all for the SAME bones instead of separate ones. I somehow have to figure out how to animate other things like my raven whose legs are actually taken from my hands and arms, and its wings are from my tentacles